Darylen, Can you explain what is, or who is SAFE Aroostook?

Darylen SAFE Aroostook is a coalition of individuals who are concerned about issues of civil rights and the prevention of hate crimes, [and about] making Aroostook a safe and welcoming place for all kinds of people. It's an informal coalition, it's not something that has a board of directors or by-laws. It's a group of people who get together locally to work on making Aroostook a safer place.

Is Aroostook not a safe place?

Darylen Aroostook is just like any other area of our country. We are just as safe and just as unsafe as any other place in the United States [with] a culture that has some racist elements, some sexist elements, some homophobic elements, and we have those same elements right here in Aroostook County. A lot of times the kind of prejudice that we're working to address, to overcome, comes from not knowing: thinking that we don't know anyone who might be gay, or that we don't know anyone who's Jewish, or do we really know anyone who's of a different culture or a different race, and what might they be like? So we're working through education to help people understand.

John Also prevention, in a sense. It's not that we're just responding to a situation where there may be a question of safety for someone's well-being.

There probably are a variety of different groups, somewhat different than the majority, that may not feel as welcomed, may not feel as comfortable, may not be as openly accepted, may experience some alienation or ostracization or stress because of that difference. There may be difficulties in forming a better community and a more welcoming community, where people are not understanding of differences of background or culture or ethnicity or color or race, or what have you. So it's not just a question of safety. I think when you focus on safety it's being like there is going to be a crime committed against you. It's much more than that. It's a sense for an opportunity for people to grow and develop together and to become good neighbors and take care of each other and feel good about who they are and where they live. By promoting tolerance and understanding and discussing issues of hate or violence or prejudice or bias, it really helps prevent the consequences, which at some point could lead into something being not safe or even something being a crime of violence.

How long has SAFE Aroostook been in existence?

Bob The genesis of the group really came out of the defacing of the Jewish synagogue here, the "shul" [about two years ago]. That event raised issues, raised some consciousness. It was kind of a spark. Following that, individuals came together very spontaneously. What if something like that happened again? Shouldn't we be sort of ready, or together in some sense, so that we can respond more quickly? Shouldn't there at least be some sort of a network from which we can address those kind of issues when they happen? And, that was part of it. The group was sort of thinking, not just response, as John's already said, but that we ought to be working to make sure these things don't happen at all. It's degrees of safety that we're really talking about, I think that's what we're all saying. Is it unsafe in Aroostook? Well, in the scale that many of us apply, no, it's not unsafe, in fact, it's much safer here than many, many places in the world. However, it's safe or unsafe depending on who you are, what you are, and who doesn't like who you are or what you are, and that's the issue. I think that's a very simplistic way of saying it, but if you're the wrong person in the wrong place, or the wrong time, then you're unsafe. Our goal is simply to make sure that that kind of environment is minimized, if not totally wiped out, in whatever way that we can. So, mission-wise, there's no structural curriculum kind of based reality that we can draw upon; we're a work in progress, I guess is the way to describe it.

Darylen As we've evolved, too, we've also been able to offer some support to folks who feel they have been victims of acts that made them unsafe, of prejudice.

John It's also a forum for those of us who participate within the coalition itself, to increase our level of understanding, our level of education, and our level of awareness. The organization . . . becomes kind of a tool, or a developmental process. So it becomes a support, it becomes a professional development, it becomes a personal development. It actually gets implemented or built in, or synthesized, if you will, into what we normally do every day, and we use that. [I] use the information and the understanding and the awareness, and the suggestions and the support to think about programs that I do where I work, or to think about how I can better work with individuals who come to me with issues, questions or problems.

Darylen We get to practice on each other. (Laughter) "What would you say if . . ."

So in addition to working together to help others who've had problems with issues of safety in Aroostook County, it seems that for those involved, a side effect is that it makes you more conscious of issues of safety in Aroostook County.

John We've also had some members of the committee who've actively begun to talk about some of these issues, who began to realize some of their own feelings about situations that happened to them personally, and then [by] sharing those became more in touch with what it felt like to be the recipient of statements about one's religion or ethnicity or any particular background that you want. So it's been beneficial that way for members of our own group.

Who are the people involved in this group? Where are they from?

Darylen We have a variety of people involved, people who are members of the clergy, people who are social workers and counselors, we do have a school guidance counselor involved, we have folks who are involved in varied social services in Aroostook County, from the Battered Women's Project to the Homeless Shelter to Health 1st, the University [of Maine at Presque Isle], just a variety of organizations - Visiting Nurses of Aroostook. We've had representation from just about every social service organization out there. We've had students involved as well, young people.

Bob If there's something that we hold in common, I think what characterizes most of the people in the group is [that they] are open to diversity in the human family, and are very compelled to find some expression or some way of getting involved when they see events or actions in which the individuality or the humanity of differing perspectives and orientations is being attacked or threatened in some way. And yet, even though we have this thing in common, it's still a group that does not necessarily see one way of responding or acting or one path for the group to follow, so we're still feeling our way in terms of how we each want to react or respond or get involved. We have a similar motivation, but haven't really found a common mission, I guess. The mission statement is very broad, for good reason.

Is there a formal structure to the organization? I understand you meet once a month.

Bob Darylen is essentially the convener, by default. Essentially there is no structure, or it is an informal group that tries to get by with minimal organization.

John You don't apply for membership, you don't have to be approved, and you don't have to pay dues.

Darylen There are no elections of officers. We're here because we care about it.

John We're a community.

You have a meeting and people show up. Do you have projects, to you have . . . what do you do?

Bob The doing part has been part of our struggle. What is it that we ought to be doing? It's one thing to care about what's happening, but most of us then feel very strongly that something that is going on that is wrong needs to be addressed and we ought to be DOING something, but what, we've not been able to sort of really grab easily. I think we have done some things: we have responded in print with a letter that basically had our signatures, an expression of who we are and what we believe about a certain situation. We've been able to do that publicly, so we could sort of make a witness, which is doing something. A couple of times we've sat and listened and tried to respond to concerns of individuals who had felt racial and ethnic hostilities, and that kind of thing, providing support.

John We've held a community forum which was a chance to explore the types of diversity in our families and our community and a chance to understand how attitudes and behaviors towards people's differences are going to be affecting those individuals personally, emotionally, and behaviorally. So it was kind of a public opportunity for education. We've done that once.

Darylen The major things that happen at each meeting is that we have a chance to share with each other, and really, truly do what I said before, and that's practice with each other about ways to respond and problem-solve. For instance, I was with a group of students who are disabled in some way, shape or form. Those folks are often discriminated against and called names and laughed at and ignored, folks who are differently abled, let me put it that way. And I was with a group of students once who were making fun, and it wasn't because they were mean kids, or any different than any other high school student, making fun of someone who looked a little different, and who was obviously differently abled. We'd just been to a diversity event, and I was dumbstruck. I didn't know what to say to those kids. I wasn't happy with what I said, and I came back to this group and was able to get some ideas about how I might handle that with a group of kids again a little differently maybe, so that next time they "get it" a little bit better. These are good, wonderful young people who really do care about some of the same issues, but they just didn't extend what we were talking about with ethnic, racial and so forth groups, to those people who have different abilities than they do.

Is the organization and what you do reactive: something happens, and you discuss is? Or is it proactive, perhaps going out and presenting some kind of program. How would you define the group in those terms?

John I think we've actually done both. There have been situations that have come to our attention and we have talked about ways to respond to those situations, and that I guess you'd call reactive. We've talked about what could we do, and then we began to look at alternatives available to us to try to generate ideas and programs and interventions that would work to prevent problems from developing, or things that are little from growing up and becoming big, so I think the group has kind of balanced both the reactive and the proactive.

Dan, what do you think about this organization, the value of the group?

Dan The reason I agreed to be part of this thing is I believe in safety for all concerned. The reason I'm still here is that I'm hoping that we may be achieving that, or going in that direction as far as Aroostook County is concerned, because since I was a young man, young boy, child, this has not been a safe place for me or any Indian family [in] Aroostook County. I always had that fear somewhere within me, "I'm not safe here." So when I heard about SAFE Aroostook, well, actually it was a Jewish friend of mine who asked me to come here. I've been with these kind of groups in the past and they sort of dissolved as we went along. So actually it's a tough issue. We're talking about safe Aroostook, we're talking about diversity, we're talking about those kinds of things, but when you look at me we're talking about racism, we're talking about discrimination, we're talking about bigotry, we're talking about prejudice, that's what I'm talking about. And that's what I'm talking about when I say it's an unsafe place for me in the schools, today. If it's an unsafe place for me, it's an unsafe place for just about anybody there. I suppose most white people wouldn't think that way, "It's not unsafe for me. I'm perfectly fine. I've lived here all my life, generation after generation." But it is. If there's one person who doesn't feel safe or is not safe within this community of Aroostook, then all of us aren't safe, and that's why I'm still sticking with this. Hopefully we actually go somewhere, do something, do more.

Bob Reactively there might be some short-term things that we can accomplish, so if something happens we can try to respond in some way. But as far as proactively, I think that just by its nature that's a slow process. That's a big change in a culture. So for Dan to feel safe, there are a lot of people out there who don't agree necessarily with our little group and so the proactive side for me and the biggest value of the group for me is the chance to gather with a small community. I think what we're doing is building a small community; then that community can be some sort of leaven or can influence others. That's one of the things that we've been doing. It takes a while to get to know each other, especially when we're dealing with it once a month and little by little. Part of the process for me is the rubbing elbows, or sitting around a table and hearing a perspective like Dan can offer. I'm in the privileged group and I know that, so part of what I need to constantly be aware of and alerted to is that I can't ever take that for granted. I need opportunities to be reminded, lest I forget that I may be totally safe but there are people who aren't. And so for me to hear other people's stories and to get a chance to be in a community with them is just valuable in and of itself. A lot of action isn't coming out of that, and we aren't going down to city hall, or up against this group or that, and we aren't marching down the street necessarily, but some change is happening. The change is within our group, is where it has to start.

John Good point. We're not here for its stimulus value, we're not here to get attention for ourselves, we're not here to make the situation worse by running down and forming a protest that doesn't change anything or accomplish anything. The problems that Dan feels or the problems that we've heard in the group are things that are in the culture. Values are learned, values are deeply rooted, values have been there for a long time, even though there may be little to actually support that particular behavior. That's not what we're about, to be a reactive loud protesting group, but to be more an evolving quiet group that begins to look at what we can do to change those values, to change that culture of prejudice and racism and violence.

Darylen I don't think that this group necessarily is in a place to be rowdy or socially active or lead a march, but many of us in the group are in leadership positions in different areas of our community, so we are in a place where we can articulate sometimes for a broader audience. Talking in this small group of SAFE Aroostook helps us to be able to do that better, because we can hear from Dan, we can hear from other people who've come and shared their stories with us, and that gives us a way to be more articulate, to put a face sometimes on what may only be an idea otherwise. "We don't have any diversity in Aroostook." I've heard that I can't tell you how often, "We don't have diversity in Aroostook County, we're all pretty much alike, and of course it's a safe place." That's because they may not think they know anyone who's any different than they are. We're also an open group, and would welcome people joining us who share our concerns about these issues.

I'm trying to get a sense of the people involved in the group. Have they personally experienced problems living in this part of Maine, or do they know others who have had problems, or is it a sense of altruism, trying to help others? What's your sense of the people who are involved in SAFE Aroostook?

Darylen We did an exercise at our community forum. We all listed what our ethnic background is, what our religious background is, and thought also about our extended families: who's in our family, [their] sexual orientation, abilities, disabilities, and so forth. The diversity [at the forum] was really amazing. I think that many of us have personally experienced or have members of our family who have experienced discrimination. I think there are many of us there who share that. I would say, though, that if you look at us and who we are on the surface, at our names and at our skin color, you might not see that right on the surface, with a lot of us.

Bob I'll say that I'm in that completely safe, the in-charge, in-control group. But I have two adopted children, one biracial with Black heritage and the other is Native American, so it's not my safety but the safety of my children that is there in some sense. Plus I'm an incorrigible do-gooder, I guess, at heart. I was raised that way. I feel like I should be trying to help, if I can help. Sometimes I feel a little guilty about that because, you know, I'm part of the problem in some way. But I'm part of the group because I want to grow. I think the group does have that kind of diversity. Part of my growth is trying to understand what my own family needs and concerns are, but also looking beyond just that kind of closeness, hearing other people's needs as well.

John And I think for me one of the things that really kind of whetted my interest in participation in this group was what I do every day in my real job: listen to stories of young people about their life experiences, and learning to listen beyond the words. Once you really listen and understand what it must be like to be discriminated against, to be called, to be ridiculed, to be ostracized, to be threatened, to feel unsafe, it changes you. I think it's really, really hard for a lot of individuals who don't experience that to understand how that affects those who do get that type of treatment or behavior. I have become much more aware of what that must be like, and I see now why this is an important topic, a very important topic, and very important right here in Aroostook, even though again it may not be an issue that's often talked about. It's not often part of a lesson plan, it's not often part of an article, it's not often part of a newspaper report, it's important because it affects how people feel about themselves, and how people feel about their community.

Dan Something that's not talked about [is] denial. And it still exists today. There is a problem in Aroostook County, in this country, in regards to race and race relations and in regards to treatment of minorities and regards to treatment of Indian people, the first people of this land, referred to as Native Americans. Our Elders tell us there are two reasons we were put here on this Earth. We are to grow and develop from our experiences, and to be of service to humankind. I went through a lot of grief during the Maine land claims settlement with the band in that area, maybe not up here, certainly down in the Penobscot, Passamaquoddy. It was bad. It was like the wild wild west. Nobody knows it or is aware of it, or things that happened there in that area with race relations. I guess that's why I'm still here with SAFE Aroostook, still growing and developing, hoping in the process that other people are growing and developing along with myself. The thing we're trying to do is create a safe Aroostook.

John This is kind of exactly what we're talking about. I'm not sure how to put this into words, but my reaction to what you've said makes me think that that's really what we're kind of all about. You know, it takes a lot of courage and if you can appreciate the risk it would take for a male, an old male, of a minority group in the area, to come before a bunch of us that he does not know very well, take the risk to talk about his feelings about how his treatment growing up in this area made him feel, and how even today those fears still persist in his life and in this community. To me, that takes a lot of risk to be able to share that with others and to talk about those things openly and to be willing to use himself as an example of how to help others who may not have yet found that voice, found that courage or are willing to take that risk, to say that what's happening to them is not okay. I think that's an excellent example, and I guess in a way I look at that as kind of a success of what this group is all about, just this small little example that happens within the structure of our own meetings. That has been tremendously revealing and beneficial. And the growth, I think, for all of us has kind of given us the sense of empowerment, that change can take place. So I really respect the time that he's been willing to take with us to share that.

Is there anything else that someone wants to add?

Darylen I just want to make sure that we include all the folks that we've mentioned here because we do have people who are homeless who are afraid. And we've talked a little bit about social class in the school world, or people who are older, elderly people who are discriminated against and are afraid based on their age. There are just a vast array of groups of people that we know have been discriminated against, or have had prejudices displayed against them in the past, that we are concerned about. It's not only race, ethnicity, religion, but it's also gender, social class, age, ability, and all the broad array of humanity. I guess I'm with Bob, in the do-gooder category. I'm looking at people in Aroostook County in general and want to make sure that we all feel that we are welcome here in Aroostook County. I really want this to be an ideal place.

Dan Again, going on my Indian heritage, traditional teaching of my people, our Elders tell us that before any kind of change, any kind of meaningful change can take place in any situation, you have to go through four steps, if you will. The first is to recognize the risk, the issue or problem, and then be able to acknowledge that, and then you have to be able to accept that, and then you can do the reconciliation from that point on. If those four steps don't take place, then you're not really working toward any kind of meaningful, loving change.

The group has been meeting for how long, about two years?

Darylen About a year and a half. January 1999 is when we had our first meeting.

Do you have a sense that anything has changed? Has anything been accomplished, Dan?

Dan I think it's getting better.

Darylen I think so, too. I think my understanding has broadened as a result of participating in this group, and I think if I've changed, then that's changed the way I'm interacting with the schools I work with, with the students I work with. That's changed how I interact with my cohort group Ð I have a much stronger voice. Our community forum I think was successful, and I think if we can raise awareness just a little bit, that's a change.

You've referred to this community forum several times, and you said it was successful. Are you planning to do something like that again?

Darylen It would be a great idea, and should be something that we probably consider. It's been about nine months since we did that community forum and I think it would be a good thing to do again. I'm not sure how the rest of the group feels, though; it would have to be a group effort.

John We are also willing to interact with other organizations or other resources that do similar things. We're just not wanting to do this independently if there are other organizations or people or resources that can help in different areas, then we'd be glad to promote their activities or work with them, or use their skills or talents, so again it's more of a community effort, it's not just us trying to do it.

Thank you all very much.